Gifrific: Sam's New Muse.

Source: Send Help (2026)

Come Get Some!

Yes, this is a rare post about a new release. It doesn't happen very often these days, but once every few years (Halloween 2018, The Sadness) I feel compelled to type out some thoughts on the film of the hour. That film today is Lee Cronin's new Evil Dead flick.

I had a lot of fun with this one, much more than I did with Fede Alvarez's 2013 remake. Looking back on my review from ten years ago, I was perhaps a little harsh. For what it was, it was fine, but Cronin's offering is a much stronger piece and I think a legitimately good horror movie. 

Predominantly, I wager this is due to the likeable cast of characters. Apart from Jane Levy and Jessica Lucas (bless her) I didn't give a rat's ass about anyone in the remake, but here, this crew was just a nice family that unfortunately DJ'd their way into tragedy. All the performances are solid, especially Aussie Alyssa Sutherland as the matriarch-turned Deadite - do we still call them that? She brings a tremendous physicality to the role, adding pinches of The Joker and Pennywise into her portrayal to really make it sing. Some of her line deliveries really got the crowd going.  

I think the fresh location (a soon to be knocked down apartment complex) really helps this movie, as well. While it is mainly confined to one floor, thus not going full Demons 2 as I had hoped, they still utilize the environment to the fullest. And not unlike the new Hellraiser, the filmmakers found interesting ways to expand the lore, in addition to keeping the effects as practical as possible.

 

Speaking of which, Evil Dead Rise is very bloody. VERY bloody. An estimated count of 1,700 gallons of blood seems low in comparison to the remake's apparent count of 70,000. Although, Cronin did say that due to the pandemic, blood shortages caused them to have re-use it as much as possible. Can you imagine? I kept thinking about that during the final act, man the actors really earned their pay on that stretch of the shoot. Great stuff.  

Lily Sullivan as Beth in Evil Dead Rise

Evil Dead Rise is just well put together, with good pacing, particularly once the blood hits the fan. All of the callbacks to the original trilogy - of which there are many - felt earned and not simply fan service. Additionally, there are many other classics to which Cronin pays homage, including The Shining and Aliens - the latter heavily in the climax, even down to the Horner infused score.

I think my only knock on this movie is that the bookend sequences seemed unnecessary. I imagine it served as a doorway to make more Evil Dead films, but those scenes seemed a tad clunky in contrast to the main story. A minor gripe.

Lastly, I've been thinking about why Rise works so much better than its 2013 counterpart, even rhough they share almost exactly the same tone. Perhaps it was just expectation. A decade ago, the marketers decided to plaster “THE MOST TERRIFYING THING EVER” on their posters (it wasn't), while Cronin's crew instead focused on the family element that just happens to be one of the main strengths of the piece. Oh, and they gave us cheese graters after the movie...

So, yes. I approve of this latest Evil Dead film. It was a lot of fun to see with a crowd, and if you feel so inclined I recommend you do the same. 

it Came From The Archives 31.2

Hey all! Today's archives clippings feature articles and interviews with some of horrors greatest icons. Behold! Click images to enlarge.

Those Freddy articles crack me up. Innocent times when we still believed each subsequent horror sequel was absolutely, definitely, certainly, for sure the last one. As for Robert Englund's “Freddy-less future”, I'm sure he wasn't sweating it.

Tomorrow, I wrap things up with some random clippings and release posters from various nineties releases.

To further dive into the archives, click here

Japan Gonna Pump... You up!

Last Saturday for its third year in a row, The Royal Cinema hosted the What The Film Festival.

A satellite event of the Laser Blast Film Society, the WTFF caters to the eclectic and experimental. Programmer Peter Kuplowsky scowers the globe for stuff outside the mainstream and this year gave us three such examples in Shinichi Fukazawa's Bloody Muscle Body Builder In Hell, Kentucker Audley's Sylvio and Michael Reich's She's Allergic To Cats.

Due to a family engagement, I was only able to catch the first show, but what a time it was.

You may have heard this movie referred to as the Japanese Evil Dead and that is pretty accurate. However, though there were many bits and pieces that were ripped right out of Raimi's beloved splat-stick trilogy, Fukazawa did make this his own thing by mixing in traditional Asian ghost story tropes and the aforementioned bodybuilding obsession. It did take a while to get going, but once the vengeful spirit was unleashed, the balls-to-the-wall inventiveness took over.

Here's blood in your eye! (sorry, couldn't resist)

As a huge Sam Raimi fan, it was impossible for me to not find this incredibly endearing. Body Builder was as fun as it was gory with a delightful everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to practical effects. Shot mostly in confined spaces, you could tell how difficult and time consuming - much like Evil Dead - some of these sequences must have been to shoot. It's the kind of DIY filmmaking that not only entertains, but also inspires.

Writer/Director & also lead actor Shinichi Fukazawa.

It is sad to think that this movie almost did not see the light of day. It was shot in 1995, but not fully put together for another fifteen years. It was then only available underground on DVD-R until UK company TerraCotta finally did an official release this year. I feel the world of splatter cinema is now a little redder for it.

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Hey all. I'm all rested up now after a healthy dose of MST3K (still got this song stuck in my head) over the last two days. Here's some cool stuff from the Web.

Halloween UK.

I found this fantastic piece of archival material on Film On Paper recently. For the release of John Carpenter's Halloween in the UK, the distributor Miracle Films put together this beautiful cinema advertising guide.

What a great time to be alive. To check out the full guide, click here.

What You Can't See...

Keeping with the subject of  JC, (the important one) I wanted to throw up Matthew Therrien's newest addition to his Final Girls & Cinema Survivors series based on the 1980 film The Fog.

To check out the rest of the series, click here.

Sam's The Man.

Get ready to be incredibly frustrated. I found a YT video on Dread Central from 1987 which features Sam Raimi under siege in the UK about his “reprehensible & irresponsible” films Evil Dead 1 & 2.

This man has the patience of a saint. Fuck man, I don't see how people could ever take Evil Dead 2 seriously. Now that the “nanny-staters” have moved onto violent video games I sometimes forget how ridiculous these so-called experts were. Good on ya, Sam.

That's it for now. Oh, and Happy Easter I guess.

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Hey all. I hope you are enjoying your long weekend. I know I'm going to make good use of my extra time. For now, here's what I've got for you today.

Big News.

We got a couple of doozies this week. First, the rumour dropped that Sam Raimi is in talks to possibly produce and direct a film featuring The Bermuda Triangle. Now I know it's not official, but I would love this not only due to Raimi's involvement, but also because that particular phenomenon is so underutilized in film. I'll take this news with a grain of salt, but hey, Evil Dead 4 did finally end up happening in the form of a television show, so hey, anything is possible now right?

The second was the announcement of Stephen King & JJ Abrams teaming up with Hulu to make an anthology featuring King mainstay Castle Rock.

I mean, Stranger Things might have had something to do with it, but I can't believe no one thought to do this before! This has so many wonderful possibilities, and I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Mondo Games?

The artist collective Mondo announced this week that they are getting into the board game business. First up, a board game called Infection at Outpost 31 based on the events of John Carpenter's The Thing.

Come to think of it, The Thing would work as a Werewolves type party game, as well. This isn't the first time that The Thing has been adapted, as I fondly remember playing a pseudo-sequel on the PS2. 

Hopefully, this game isn't as elusive as their prints and I can actually get my hands on a reasonably priced package.

Dead By Dawn.

The 2017 New York Toy Fair is on right now, and NECA dropped these beauties for the 30th anniversary of Evil Dead 2.

Man, the likenesses on these are terrific. I so want that Deadite dear head! As if I don't already have enough Evil Dead stuff! 

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Hey everyone! I'll have to make this quick, as I'm off to an afternoon poker game in a few hours. Check out what I've got for you today.

Frank of Anarchy.

The trailer for James Bickert's newest flick Frankenstein Created Bikers dropped this weekend.

Well, there's certainly a lot going on this trailer. I don't see how I can possibly resist giving this one a go. Get ready for Frank to be unleashed this summer.

Buy Samerican.

Chevrolet recently procured the services of Sam Raimi for one of their new ad campaigns.

I hate to state the obvious, but wouldn't have Oldsmobile been the more appropriate choice? Though, as a Chevy guy for over twenty years, I can certainly get behind this.

R.I.P. Andrzej Zulawski 1940-2016.

As is becoming all too frequent, I have to end this DKTM on a sad note. Director Andrzej Zulawski passed away this past Wednesday. He was 75. The Ukrainian born filmmaker's spanned over five decades. I became aware of his work just recently when I saw 1981's Possession starring Sam Neill and Isabelle Adjani. It is a striking piece of work, a cinematic nightmare in fact, with one of the most toxic relationships I've ever seen put to film. His last film was last year's Cosmos, which he wrote and directed after a fifteen-year absence from the business. Rest in peace.

All Hail The Blind God!

A movie I'd been hearing about since its premiere at SXSW was New Zealand's Jason Lei Howden's horror comedy Deathgasm.

A group of teenage metalheads unwittingly resurrect an ancient evil that casts their sleepy town into chaos.

Deathgasm was bloody buckets of fun. The Kiwis have always had a real affinity for mixing comedy and horror, as aside from the obvious Peter Jackson classics that this film playfully pays homage to, there have also been crazy cats like The Spierig Brothers (Undead) and Jonathan King (Black Sheep). However, I would say the biggest influence on this movie was Sam Raimi's Evil Dead though. It was really hard not to enjoy myself when very Candarian-like demons started popping up everywhere.

The movie was also incredibly gory. I should've expected that considering the source, but I guess it's just been a while since it's been done properly like this. Although, I do feel that Howden may have a borderline unhealthy fixation with crotch-area mutilation. He seems to get a little too much enjoyment out of stuffing sharp objects up people's anuses.

Milo Cawthorne (left) & James Blake as Brodie & Zakk in Deathgasm.

I feel like this was kind of what I wanted from 2008's Dance of the Dead, but it never quite hit the mark like Deathgasm did. I've never been into metal – unless you count my brief sampling of Twisted Sister and Motley Crue circa 1985 – but I feel the outcast teen is pretty relatable no matter where their interests lie. I don't have much more to say other than Deathgasm is definitely the kind of movie best seen as a shared experience with an audience.

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Hey all. Hope you are all having a great weekend. Here's what I've got for you this week.

The Ashman Cometh.

Comic-Con is winding down today, but we got a sizable amount of trailers to gush over, including Star Wars VII, Batman vs. Superman & Suicide Squad, but none more important to horror fans than the commercial for the new series from Sam Raimi, Ash Vs Evil Dead.

Ray Santiago, Bruce Campbell & Dana DeLorenzo in Ash Vs. Evil Dead.

I'm gonna be honest with you, I was skeptical about this. Not that it would be good, but that it would ever happen. Raimi & Campbell have been poo-pooing an Evil Dead 4 for so many years, I never believed them when they started considering it. Though I guess the successes of Drag Me To Hell and Alvarez's Evil Dead remake was enough to resurrect the Deadites once more. Anyhoo, the trailer below is nothing short of very, very promising.

After Spartacus, Starz seems like a very good place for this. I see that Lucy Lawless is already on board, so here's hoping that Raimi can bring in more of his long time collaborators, like his brother Ted and Dan Hicks. Ash vs. Evil Dead premieres this Halloween.

Prowling.

Here's a sweet limited edition poster for The Prowler created by artist Trevor Henderson.

For info on picking up this super limited edition poster, go here.

A Game That Plays You.

I discovered a super cool crowdfunding for something called Hyde the other day. It looks like a new type of Escape Room game mixed with Halloween amusement ride. But with a twist, as you are hooked up to heart monitors, which give you to power to affect your environment. Check out the video below.

You still have 5 days to contribute, so if you'd like to help this become a reality, click here for more info.

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Hey everyone! To all my Canadian friends, I hope are enjoying your May 24 weekend. To the rest of you, I hope your Sunday is a relaxing one. Here's some horror morsels to get you going.

Frontières Arrive.

This week, some of the titles bring pitched at this year's Frontières in Fantasia were announced. The complete line-up will be revealed at the end of May, but this preview certainly is promising.

Based on his positive experience at Fantasia in 2014 with The Harvest, director John McNaughton returns to Montreal to pitch his new project, Carny Kill.

After knocking audiences on their asses in 2010 (Jesus, has it really been five years?) with his debut A Serbian Film, unapologetic button-presser Srdjan Spasojevic returns with his follow-up, Whereout.

A Serbian Film.

Homegrown filmmaker Renaud Gauthier hopes to continue the success he had with 2013's Discopath with this sophomore effort, 'Lude Behavior.

That's a good start, wouldn't you say? I'm actually staying a while longer in Montreal this July, so I might get to see a few of these presentations if all goes well.

Screamtime.

Here's the new teaser for the upcoming MTV show, Scream.

I'm on the fence about this show. I've read the pilot script and wasn't all that impressed. I feel like I'm not the audience for this show. Well, that's not true. I am exactly the audience for this show, but maybe just not the demographic. It is on MTV after all.

There's also the fact that the slasher formula doesn't really lend itself to a television serial format. And the “Randy” character pointing that out in the trailer doesn't negate that. If you're going to do a slasher as a show, you need to be more upfront about it, like 2009's Harper's Island, where they told you at least one person would die an episode ala Ten Little Indians and it was a closed thirteen episode event. Who knows how long Scream could drag on for? And then there's Scream Queens...

Ryan Murphy has had success in the past with his genre trope melting pot American Horror Story, so I'd say this one does seem a little more promising. Though I'd be a little more excited if it was on FX, and not Fox though.

Evil Dead, Pullin Style.

Grey Matter Art recently commissioned artist Gary Pullin to create a new poster for Evil Dead II. Naturally, it turned out groovy. Check it out - along with the glow-in-the-dark variant - below.

These are terrific and Gary got the likeness just right too. They went on sale last Thursday and are only limited to 150, so go here if you want to grab one for fifty bones.

Horror Debates Part II

Last Wednesday, The popular Black Museum Debate Club returned with four teams arguing which of their chosen flicks was the best horror sequel.

Like before, each team consisted of two speakers;

Returning champions Tal Zimerman (Writer, Rue Morgue Magazine) and Steve Kostanski (Director, Manborg) were Team Dawn of the Dead.

The new duo of Alison Lang (editor-in-chief, Broken Pencil Magazine) & Simon Borer (musician, Entire Cities) made up Team Exorcist III.

Less Lee Moore (Writer, Popshifter.com) and Shaun Hatton (TV's The Electric Playground) comprised Team Aliens.

Alexandra West (Writer, Famous Monsters of Filmland) and J.M. McNab (Rewatchability podcast) were Team Evil Dead II.

Like last time, the debate was broken up into six rounds, after which returning judge Stuart “Feedback” Andrews awarded points based on performance. The first two rounds consisted of opening statements followed by a prepared six-to-eight minute video supporting their case. Here are some highlights;

Team Dawn of the Dead's three main points were scope, gore effects and the music.

Tal Zimerman: “Dawn of the Dead is the greatest sequel ever. It is the greatest movie ever. George A. Romero took his end of the world scenario, the likes of which no one had ever seen before, to levels unimaginable by audiences of the day.”

“Dawn offers bang for the buck unlike any other movie. There are so many gore gags and effects – exploding heads, flesh torn from necks, arms and legs, entrails pulled from body cavities, heads lopped off by helicopter blades and swords, heads blown off by shotguns, rifles handguns, split in half by machetes and dented by hammers, zombies run over by trucks, blown up by Molotov cocktails, and thrown off balconies.”

Steve Kostanski: “From the title card which explodes in a burst of guitar and synth, to the throbbing serenade that comprises Dawn's main theme, this action-packed funk workout – yes I actually just said funk workout – underscored the film's sequences and would be Goblin's most accomplished musical effort to date. No small feat considering the amazing soundtracks for Profondo Rosso and Suspiria that had come before.”

Team Exorcist III's three main points were atmosphere, the acting and that their film was the only true horror sequel of the quartet.

Simon Borer: “You know what's not scary? The evils of consumerism. You know what's not scary? Space. Nobody here is going to space, it's going to be fine. And if you find a book bound in human skin in the basement of an abandoned cabin? Don't read from it. You know what is fuckin' scary? Old people. This movie is about getting old, it's about seeing your friends embalmed, it's about seeing your friends succumb to dementia and it's a fear we're all going to have to face and that's why this has the scariest atmosphere of any movie.”

Alison Lang: “George C. Scott gives this amazing performance (as Detective Kinderman) and we have also have Brad Dourif as the Gemini Killer, who we all know is one of the best character actors out there. And he fuckin' acts the shit out of that role! He's so fucking scary! And he doesn't need any prosthetics, he doesn't need any gore, he's just Brad Dourif. He just looks like a man possessed!”

Team Aliens' three main points were escalation, that the film works as a stand-alone, yet also has callbacks to the original.

Shaun Hatton: “Aliens raises the stakes of the first film, which is something that sequels should do. In Alien, there was a small crew aboard the Nostromo trying to fend off one alien. In Aliens, however, there is a colony of people who have been destroyed by a nest of Aliens. The situation is so bad that a special group of marines are sent in along with Ripley, the only human survivor of the first film.”

Less Lee Moore: “Ripley takes charge in Aliens, an equal of the men in the film instead of being saved by them. That makes her one of the first female action heroines, beating out Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 by four years.”

“It is still scary like its predecessor, but it also adds action and comedy into the mix in the form of the marines, especially Private Hudson, played by Bill Paxton, whose scenes have become iconic.”

Team Evil Dead 2's three main points were ingenuity, Bruce Campbell and its creation of a universe.

J.M. McNab: “What's great about Evil Dead 2 is that it takes these formal building blocks of cinematic storytelling and really propel them to new creative heights. We've got these crazy tracking shots, stylized edits, the assaultive audio mix and the crazy prosthetics and make-up effects. This style was widely copied in this movie, and never equalled in our opinion.”

Alexandra West: “Bruce Campbell aka Ash really gives one of the most iconic performances in the entirety of the horror genre. Ash starts out as this smarmy guy, who loses his girlfriend to demons, has a mental breakdown, he fights with his own body, and eventually he emerges to become this crazy awesome, anti-hero with a chainsaw for a hand. There are very few films that have this kind of range. It speaks to the amazing relationship that Campbell and Sam Raimi have that they can push each other's limits.”

“This movie really builds the mythology and creates a wonderful world to play in. They make something really bold and exciting and new, while still respecting the horror genre. You can tell from this film that is a genre and they really love and are passionate about.”

After the supporting video segments, came the trivia round which consisted of five sequel-based questions. When the dust settled, Team Dawn and Evil Dead 2 were tied with ten points, with Exorcist III and Aliens following behind with, eight and six points, respectively.

Then after an intermission, the debaters returned with their rebuttals. Here’s what went down when the claws came out;

Team Dawn of the Dead on Exorcist III;

TZ: “We have a problem with you saying that Exorcist III is the only horror sequel up here. That might be the case relative to Aliens, but come on. Dawn of the Dead's a horror film, Evil Dead 2's a horror film. They may have comedic elements, but yours is certainly not the only horror sequel.”

SK: “And is this movie even a sequel? The exorcism in the movie wasn't in the original cut. The one scene that ties this movie to The Exorcist directly, the exorcist scene, was added after the fact. It was added into the film against the director's wishes, so it's not supposed to be there.”

Team Dawn of the Dead, Tal Zimerman (left) & Steve Kostanski.

On Aliens;

TZ: “We don't feel the stakes are raised, because they are ARMED TO THE TEETH!”

SK: “A good example of this is the chestburster scene in both films. In the original when it happens, that's the most horrifying scene in the movie. But in Aliens when it happens, their immediate response is to blast it with a flamethrower which kind of diffuses the scene. It takes away from it being a horror film.”

On Evil Dead 2;

TZ: “Creating a world? The world that's created in Evil Dead 2 is... Evil Dead plus Bugs Bunny. It's not so much a world as it is a cabin. It's basically a world that was already there. It was Evil Dead, plus slapstick comedy. I'm sorry, a world does not that make.”

“They pulled back on the horror element quite a bit, here's what Bruce Campbell said, and I quote 'we didn't want to create a movie that would cause kids to have nightmares. We wanted to have a wider appeal so we took out some of the real gore and put in some Three Stooges type gags.'”

Team Exorcist III on Dawn of the Dead;

SB: “When I said we were the only horror sequel, I meant that nobody else was both horror and a sequel. I don't feel Dawn of the Dead is the true sequel to Night of the Living Dead. It doesn't have the same tone, it has none of the same actors. John A. Russo retained the rights to 'The Living Dead', so the Return of the Living Dead is the film we should recognize as the sequel.”

Team Exorcist III, Simon Borer & Alison Lang.

On Aliens;

“Okay. What do the movie NBC sitcom Mad About You and Aliens have in common? The answer is they're not horror movies. Alien was a horror movie. It was an awesome haunted house movie. Aliens was an action movie, a trial run for Avatar.” 

On Evil Dead 2;

AL: “Ash is an action movie hero. He's not necessarily a horror movie hero. He's sort of a gunslinger, a buffed-up wise cracking, womanizing guy. Horror I relate to people who are disturbed or beleaguered, fighting their way to some sort of resolution. Ash to me always seems like a winner from beginning to end. To me that qualifies more as an action movie, not a horror movie.”

Aliens on Dawn of the Dead;

SH: “You talked about bang for your buck. There is a lot of various gore, but no mention of many scenes of people arguing, and the main characters playing 'house' for a very long time. Nothing particularly horror about that.”

Team Aliens, Less Lee Moore & Shaun Hatton.

On Exorcist III;

“The only reason it was directed by Blatty was because John Carpenter passed on it. That is a sleight. John Fucking Carpenter is like, 'no!'. Imagine how awesome The Exorcist III would have been with like, Jack Burton in it. Fucking great!”

On Evil Dead 2;

“You mention that the cinematic ingenuity was often copied since. Yes, it was copied mainly by... Raimi. He keeps using the stuff he used in Evil Dead 2 over and over again.”

“Again, I would argue that this isn't a horror film, as the other two teams have said, as much as it is a slapstick movie with ridiculous gore and that there is nothing terribly horrifying about it.”

Evil Dead 2 on Dawn of the Dead;

JM: “I find it interesting that one of your main points was the scope of the movie, considering most of the movie takes place in a shitty mall and a TV station. A lot of it is just people wandering around an abandoned department store, it's basically an episode of Today's Special.”

“I do like Dawn of the Dead, but I think in retrospect, it is kind of the American Beauty of horror movies. When I was sixteen I thought, 'people do go to malls, yeah fuck them' and now it's like, 'sometimes I need shoes.'”

Team Evil Dead 2, Alexandra West & J.M. McNab

On Exorcist III;

AW: “That one iconic scene with the nurse that you showed works because it plays itself out, the rest of the movie is this big Blatty wank-fest, with like lightning shots.”

JM: “I thought it was funny one of your main points was acting, considering I was surprised George C. Scott didn't choke on the scenery he was chewing. There's scenes where someone's like 'oh, you should look at the police report', and he's like 'NO, I WILL NOT LOOK AT THE REPORT GODDAMMIT!'”

“Also, I think it is worth noting there is not one shot in Evil Dead 2 that contains Fabio.”

On Aliens;

AW: “It didn't really change from the first one. Ripley always took charge. Even when she wasn't in a position of power, she was always saying what was right, always stating her mind, that's why she's a great character. So to say that's something new and original in Aliens is just plain wrong. They were just aping on that from the first film.”

“You mentioned call-backs? EVERY sequel has call-backs. I pity the sequel that does not have some form of call-back.”

Going into the last two rounds, Dawn and Evil Dead were still locked in a tie with twelve points, with Exorcist III right behind with ten.

Team Evil Dead 2 pulled ahead briefly after the closing statements, but the audience vote surprisingly favoured Exorcist III and put them into a tie for first with Evil Dead 2 with fifteen points.

Following a tie-breaking trivia question about the members of the Sawyer family from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, TEAM EXORCIST III were crowned the victors and took home the Golden Tentacle trophy.

After two debates, it certainly seems like the underdogs flourish in this environment. In this particular instance, a win from Team Exorcist III made sense, as they were the only ones that didn’t make a grievous error over the course of the debate.

Tal of Team Dawn misspoke when he tried to argue that Aliens failed to be scary because there were too many characters in the film, saying that made us not give a damn about any of them.

Alex of Team Evil Dead 2 made the ill-advised statement that Dawn of the Dead was a boring film that she could barely stay awake through.

Team Aliens’ whole argument was inherently flawed in that they didn’t really talk up the horror aspects of the movie. There can be absolutely no doubt that Aliens is one of the best action films – if not the best – of all time, but a horror sequel? That’s a tougher sell, and they shot themselves in the foot by not concentrating on the few horrific elements that it does have.

So, Exorcist III came through with the win, basically by championing that it was the purest horror offering of the bunch. This was another good debate, even if the score keeping was a little befuddling at times.